February 12, 2013

The real Dorner question: Not why was he fired, but why was he hired?

Immediately after the New York Times headlined "Shooting Suspect’s Racism Allegations Resound for Some," the chief of the LAPD announced the department would re-investigate why Christopher Dorner was fired.

As usual, the opposite question from the one being obsessed over in the media seems more worthy of investigation: Why was this highly defective individual hired in the first place? Why did the LAPD, which is big enough to afford the most sophisticated screening processes, ever give this man a badge and a gun?

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes! Here is a comment posted under "The Blame-Righty Mob Falls Silent" in NRO four days ago:

"How did this cretinous looney tune pass the necessary psych tests to get into the military and the LAPD? Easy answer: affirmative action, which ignores the candidates lack of qualifications and mental pathology. There is more to this story, and eventually it will out. Obviously, if Nidal Hasan could become a major in the army despite expressing terrorist sympathies and communicating with known terrorists, then this clown could easily slip into the police academy.

Notice that this LAPD washout still has an incredibly high sense of self esteem despite being a total failure in life. He is a monster of the Left's creation and there are literally millions like him. They are more dangerous than any white supremacist with an AR 15."

Anonymous said...

I worked in police recruitment in the early 1990's - Nassau County, NY. They would do an extensive background check together with a psych test (MMPI). Some of the potential officers scored outside the range and would have to be further screened by a psychologist. Some failed esp when their background or job history was considered. I guess this was not done in Dorner's case for some reason.

Anonymous said...

Veteran + Black = double preference?

Passing psych tests is easy, you just tell them what they want to hear. Plus, many subclinical psychopathic traits are desirable to police departments.

Anonymous said...

Your observation about focusing on the hiring, and not the firing, reminds me of a scene from the 1995 HBO movie, the Tuskegee Airmen. To emphasize how racist the white officers were, a talented black cadet was dismissed on a technicality by a racist major. The dismissed pilot then commandeered an aircraft, put on an amazing acrobatic display, and then did a kamikaze into the runway.

I am sure the director felt he was accurately portraying how racist the army was back then, and thought the audience would sympathize with the dead pilot. But anyone familar with the military would probably agree that the the white officer's decision to eliminate this pilot was justified based upon the way the guy freaked out. You can't have a guy like that flying expensive fighters.

Auntie Analogue said...


Oh, isn't this a Mister Rogers's Moment?

Can you say, "Affirmative Action"?

Affirmative Action, plus veteran's preference in hiring...?

Socially Extinct said...

Perhaps he was not the extreme "outlier" that the liberals want, or the conservatives wish.

My friend once applied for the LA Sheriff department and listed me as a reference. They sent me a ream-full of questions. All I can say is that faking "normality" is like shooting fish in a barrel.

If you're intelligent, it's much easier to fake normality.

I don't think Dorner was that irregular absent the trigger. The trigger, whatever it was, short-circuited the wiring in his brain/psyche. His real troubles started with the LAPD, a Kafkaesque entity in itself that I imagine triggers lots of short circuits, especially among recruits.

Anonymous said...

More scary is the fact that if an identical candidate applied tomorrow he would be hired without ado.

It took me three years and over 200 applications, four interviews and a move to a small town 350 miles from home to achieve my goal of employment as a train crew member on a Class 1 or 2 railroad, from a minimum wage job as a crew van driver. In the meantime, three people-one white female, one (sort of) black female and one black male-I urged to apply with the first railroad and duty station I worked at have been hired, all on first application, two of which quit within six months. The third will probably quit when she gets back from her second maternity leave.

Ex-cops I work with here tell me the police departments are just like the railroad.

Unknown said...

I suspect the announcement of the reinvestigation of Dorner's firing was just bait to get this highly narcissistic man to turn himself in.

M. T. Set said...

Steve, given the atmospherics around race relations in Los Angeles, I recommend you write a TakiMag article on the ethnic cleansing campaign by Hispanic gangs against blacks in Compton and other greater Los Angeles communities. There seems to be a near blackout by national media on the story.

Whiskey said...

Reputedly, Dorner was washing out of his probationary period because he could literally not fill out reports. He could not even do the paperwork/computer forms.

That's pretty easy to measure. I imagine the consent decree, and the hangover, has made the LAPD desperate for Blacks. Any Blacks. So his obvious flaws were overlooked.

rightsaidfred said...

I bet there were a few signs overlooked at his entry "for the greater good".

Once hired by such an organization, it is tough to be fired. There has to be a major personality conflict, or you have to be a major league slacker.

Also, the LAPD pays pretty well, and I suspect he wasn't able to scratch up anything close in remuneration.

Socially Extinct said...

@Unkown Yes, perhaps not quite such a bold mission as that, but at least to fuel his Jesus complex.

The Jesus complex is every man's downfall.

Anonymous said...

You can't have a guy like that flying expensive fighters.

Why? You could put him on dangerous missions with high death rates.

Anonymous said...

"You can't have a guy like that flying expensive fighters.

Why? You could put him on dangerous missions with high death rates."


It's getting to be a big problem today that so few people seem to have any real experience in affairs military and all too much experience in Hollywood fiction. I don't even know where to start...

Anonymous said...

"Your observation about focusing on the hiring, and not the firing, reminds me of a scene from the 1995 HBO movie, the Tuskegee Airmen...The dismissed pilot then commandeered an aircraft, put on an amazing acrobatic display, and then did a kamikaze into the runway."

This reminds me not a little of this: an actual black pilot who just knew he was discriminated against, and felt the need to do what that real or fictitious Tuskegee airman did.

OSS said...

OSSAs usual, the opposite question from the one being obsessed over in the media seems more worthy of investigation: Why was this highly defective individual hired in the first place? Why did the LAPD, which is big enough to afford the most sophisticated screening processes, ever give this man a badge and a gun?

He was functional, despite being defective. He's got all the things that are normally on a police resume. I'm sure AA played a role in it, but the guy wasn't dirtbag like the Ramparts guys.

One of the missing pieces to the puzzle is what he did after he was fired. Not a word about if or where he worked, if he applied for other law enforcement jobs etc.

Again said...

I predicted Dorner's suicide (admittedly, not a risky prediction):

The man believed to be Dorner never came out of the cabin, and a single shot was heard inside before the cabin was engulfed in flames, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

Dennis Dale said...

The LAPD psych test pre "reform" was effective. Don't ask me how I know.

Rodney King and NWA notwithstanding, we can all assume the LAPD's "racist history" is at least partly bullshit.
The LAPD was using black cops in black neighborhoods long before Watts too--and they were despised for their brutality. Outraged black citizens wanted regular white cops, demanding--get this--"white justice".

John Buntin's LA Noir is a fun popular history: http://www.amazon.com/L-Noir-Struggle-Americas-Seductive/dp/0307352080

So Black police misconduct being fed into the racism narrate-o-matic precedes even diversity hires.

anony-mouse said...

Hasn't the LAPD always had a paramilitary aspect to it? Remember that SWAT teams where invented there.

And Dorner was a veteran.

carol said...

we can all assume the LAPD's "racist history" is at least partly bullshit.

well, I wouldn't say that. My brother was a bartender in some nice LA supper clubs back in the 70s, and he told me the cops he knew routinely bragged about how they kept blacks in line in south Central. At the time my liberal sensibilities were quite shocked; the "racism" was definitely there but I think it stemmed from recent experience rather than sheer capriciousness.

Anonymous said...


well, I wouldn't say that. My brother was a bartender in some nice LA supper clubs back in the 70s, and he told me the cops he knew routinely bragged about how they kept blacks in line in south Central. At the time my liberal sensibilities were quite shocked; the "racism" was definitely there but I think it stemmed from recent experience rather than sheer capriciousness. Dorner grew up in Nice Middle class Orange County but he was not to far from the Barrio in Anaheim though.
2/13/13, 5:34 AM

Game Theorist said...

well, I wouldn't say that. My brother was a bartender in some nice LA supper clubs back in the 70s, and he told me the cops he knew routinely bragged about how they kept blacks in line in south Central. At the time my liberal sensibilities were quite shocked; the "racism" was definitely there but I think it stemmed from recent experience rather than sheer capriciousness.

Well sh*t d*mn, let's just do away with the police force altogether, and then the nice white ladies in SoCal can experience brutal non-consensual b*tthexual erbernankification by roving packs of feral flash-mobbing Obama voters - to their hearts' content.

Kumbayah, my Lawd, kumbayah!

Oh Lawd, kumbayah!!!

Piper said...

Yeah, there are two kinds of racism: social racism, racism the individual adopts just to fit in to society; and reactive or statistical "racism," "racism" prompted by bitter experience. I put scare-quotes around the latter because it is not baseless predjudice but informed statistical discrimination.

In fact, I have known a variety of people in "helping" jobs such as police officer, paramedic, ER nirse, and social worker, and all of them were reactive "racists." Dealing with many people in stressful situations had taught them all to make statistical predictions about their clients' attitudes, abilities, and likely behaviors by race. If a naive outsider heard them talking (or worse, joking-- lots of dark humor in stressful jobs) among themselves the outsider would likely label them "racist" without necessarily grasping the difference between mere predjudice and informed wariness.

Anonymous said...

"I predicted Dorner's suicide (admittedly, not a risky prediction)."

I didn't. I predicted that he would flee to Mexico and join the Zetas, along with all the Chicano US army and border patrol veterans.

Truth said...

"It took me three years and over 200 applications, four interviews and a move to a small town 350 miles from home to achieve my goal of employment as a train crew member on a Class 1 or 2 railroad, from a minimum wage job as a crew van driver..."

Duah man alwayz be holdin' crackas down!

Dutch Boy said...

Per Whiskey: "Reputedly, Dorner was washing out of his probationary period because he could literally not fill out reports. He could not even do the paperwork/computer forms."
Sounds plausible. Years ago I read that half the felony complaints in Washington D.C. had to be thrown out because the prosecutors could not make heads or tails of the written police reports.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 10:06 thanks for that link to the Auburn Calloway story. I'm amazed even with media "black"out I'd never heard of it. Did he ever achieve his dream of making pilot?

Kidding, that was really disturbing.

Dan in DC

Anonymous said...

Perhaps this is a good time to have a contest: count the number of Sailer tropes in the Dorner incident. The list of post labels on his website greatly under samples the number of Sailer tropes, but it's a good starting place for new readers.

Anonymous said...

Hasn't the LAPD always had a paramilitary aspect to it? Remember that SWAT teams where invented there.

Also the first to use helicopters.

rightsaidfred said...

Not to be gloomy, but I wonder if this is a bit of a harbinger: if the wheels start coming off Obama's America, we can expect more marginal characters to wash out/get laid off of these easy, high paying jobs. With few alternative prospects, and a head full of revenge nurtured by the Chicago folks...

realist said...

To have evaded the cops as long as he did, he probably had a good IQ, and that combined with affirmative action, probably negated whatever psychological defects he may have had, and thus made him hire worthy.

countenance said...

The media might be deceiving us, but it seems like Dorner had an easier time in the military than he did on the LAPD. That's probably because his military duties were constant and laid out for him, but when he had to start thinking on his feet as a civilian cop, it overheated his brain.

Anonymous said...

Why was he hired?


Because he was black.

Chad Vader said...

I'm wondering how he became a naval officer. If he couldn't write an arrest report how could he write a Navy fitness report or serious incident report? Come to mention it, how did he ever graduate from college?

Pamplono said...

The question is not why was he hired as a cop, but why was he hired as a Navy Officer.

SF said...

That mother and daughter maid team. Nobody has interviewed them yet. Maybe they are laying low because they are illegal.

Anonymous said...

I'm no sort of expert on the subject, so this might not be worth much, but is anyone else looking at Christopher Dorner's face and thinking "steroids?"

Po Po said...

Why he was fired... hah hah hah

Again said...

I doubt Dorner was particularly stupid (the Navy probably has an IQ (ASVAB) cutoff at least as high as the Army's).

I wonder about the steroids question-- he did look rather pumped, and the LAPD drug test may not have looked for exercise drugs.

I suspect Dorner was a bit nuts, not simply stupid. Combine that with socially-encouraged racial resentment and, well...

Anonymous said...

"Dorner’s Mom Spotted Drinking Wine, Eating Chips While Watching Standoff"

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/12/dorners-mom-spotted-drinking-wine-eating-chips-while-watching-standoff/

Anonymous said...

I hadn't heard of the Calloway incident either. The crew should have killed him as soon as they got the advantage: much of the trauma they suffered would not have happened. I was a Professional (i.e., nonpilot A&P mechanic) Flight Engineer for a major cargo charter carrier and would have done that to any hijacker if the opportunity presented itself, even before 9/11. Much less one who made it clear he was trying to crash the aircraft.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said..."the Auburn Calloway story. I'm amazed even with media "black"out I'd never heard of it. Did he ever achieve his dream of making pilot?"

The article was misleading. Flight engineers are/were hired as pilots (most US based carriers have done away with 3-man cockpits). FedEx, like UPS as well as all airlines that I'm aware of, bases pilot promotions entirely on date of hire. Calloway could have been the 2nd coming of Charles Lindbergh and it wouldn't have made any difference. If he was hired one day after the most junior First Officer, then he was going to be "flying the panel". Its unlikely he'd have been upset about that. Anybody getting into the commercial pilot business knows the drill - the only way to move up is for the airline to buy more planes or for people senior to you to leave. Its been that way since airlines first got going in the 1930's and will likely never change.

My Dad was an airline pilot starting in the early 1950's. Back in the propeller plane days most airlines would have a couple of crashes per year (jet engines are exponentially safer and more reliable than the old piston engines). The joke was that whenever there was a crash, you could hear "the quiet ruffling of seniority sheets" as pilots looked to see if hopefully the pilots in the crash were senior to them. If so, like the Jefferson's "we movin' on up!"

In case anybody worries The Man took it easy on the brother, he didn't. Calloway is serving a life sentence in a federal prison.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said..."The crew should have killed him as soon as they got the advantage: much of the trauma they suffered would not have happened. I was a Professional (i.e., nonpilot A&P mechanic) Flight Engineer for a major cargo charter carrier and would have done that to any hijacker if the opportunity presented itself"

They were in their seats, likely still wearing seat belts, when he started smashing them in the head with a hammer. I'm not sure they ever "got the advantage". It wasn't a hijacker situation. He was already in the cockpit - if you were really a PFE then you know about the jump-seat. He was catching a ride and was sitting in the cockpit. They had no reason to suspect him of anything until it was too late.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to thank the poster who brought up that Auburn Calloway story. I have to admit I had never heard of him. If the races had been reversed, I believe it would have been a huge news story. Another even worse story is David Burkein who was a black guy who crashed a whole plane. It is a very similar story. I had a job for many years where I had to evaluate people and their work efforts. I also was a time study officer. In my experience not one black employee I ever evaluated was up to par. And usually my reports about them were met with criticisms and sometimes threats. I got so weary of it, and receiving no real support from management, that I began overlooking many of their shortcomings and just gave them a pass unless the mistake was especially egregious.

Mr. Sailer. Why do you allow this fellow 'TRUTH' to use the word "crackas"? You wouldn't allow other posters to use the N-word now would you?

Truth said...

"Mr. Sailer. Why do you allow this fellow 'TRUTH' to use the word "crackas"? You wouldn't allow other posters to use the N-word now would you?"

I didn't "use" it, per se; I extrapolated it.

Anonymous said...

Reading the article, we see they had him down with a spear point to the neck, then he gets loose a second time and does more damage.

Andy Peterson lying atop the hijacker as Captain Sanders held the barbed spear to Calloway’s throat. Blood was smeared and spattered upon every visible surface, and dislodged detritus littered the room.....A few minutes outside of Memphis, as the plane descended, Calloway suddenly lashed out again with renewed vigor. He dragged his handicapped captors across the galley as they struggled to regain the upper hand. Using his thumbs, Calloway attempted to gouge Jim Tucker’s eye out. Andy Peterson finally found purchase on a hammer handle from the floor and made eye contact with co-pilot Tucker.

“You’ve got to hit him,” Tucker said. Peterson hit him.


My understanding is that while moving up in the union environment was a matter of required seniority, some people elected not to for various reasons, such as that moving seats might mean a change of equipment or route structure, or fear of blowing a checkride/upgrade school. Pilot FEs might not have flown for years and certainly in heavies were not current,also they could go to 65 instead of 60 if I recall, so you had people that stayed second officers until retirement. Or F/Os that did not want captain, perhaps preferring to be high on the seniority list as F/O than a junior captain. I was with a nonunion company that hired by legal requirements (you had to already have the rating) and merit. I had commercial, multi and instrument but no ATR and no turbine time or type ratings and I would have had to pay for a type rating at the minimum. I had another career I was working on and didn't plan an airline career. Although my plans didn't quite work out, I'm glad to be out of commercial aviation now. The romance is long, long gone.

Anonymous said...


The article was misleading. Flight engineers are/were hired as pilots (most US based carriers have done away with 3-man cockpits). FedEx, like UPS as well as all airlines that I'm aware of, bases pilot promotions entirely on date of hire. Calloway could have been the 2nd coming of Charles Lindbergh and it wouldn't have made any difference. If he was hired one day after the most junior First Officer, then he was going to be "flying the panel". Its unlikely he'd have been upset about that. Anybody getting into the commercial pilot business knows the drill - the only way to move up is for the airline to buy more planes or for people senior to you to leave. Its been that way since airlines first got going in the 1930's and will likely never change.

My Dad was an airline pilot starting in the early 1950's. Back in the propeller plane days most airlines would have a couple of crashes per year (jet engines are exponentially safer and more reliable than the old piston engines). The joke was that whenever there was a crash, you could hear "the quiet ruffling of seniority sheets" as pilots looked to see if hopefully the pilots in the crash were senior to them. If so, like the Jefferson's "we movin' on up!"


Flight engineers could come from three pipelines: they could have been trained by the military as flight engineers (a NCO rather than officer position, and one by itself not a qual to get the A&P license), they could be licensed mechanics (whether or not they could fly or had a pilot's license) or they could be licensed commercial pilots. Nonpilot FEs were called "professional flight engineers" because that was their permanent position, whereas pilot FEs expected to move up to first officer and then to captain. In the recip days PFEs were common and sometimes preferred by pilot crews because they knew the systems and engines better and weren't going into the pilot pool. In the jet era the bigger airlines quit hiring PFEs as the engines needed no management, which is what took the judgment and finesse. That spread and PFEs were a thing of the past in passenger aviation. (Mechanics got paid more anyway.) Cargo airlines and charter companies started hiring a few in the nineties because, well, it was cheaper. I paid for my F/E rating and checkride as a condition of employment. I was only a PP/SEL/S and glider when I hired on. We had two other PFEs who had zero flight time and zero interest in learning-they were both Navy A&P 'plane captains'(NCO equivalents of crew chiefs in the Air Force) and Orion FEs.

Anonymous said...

Truth said...

"Mr. Sailer. Why do you allow this fellow 'TRUTH' to use the word "crackas"? You wouldn't allow other posters to use the N-word now would you?

I didn't "use" it, per se; I extrapolated it.


Right. Of course. But my point is you can "extrapolate" the word "crackas" in a post on this blog, but Mr. Sailer would never let me "extrapolate" the word "N*****".