March 2, 2014

Applebaum's conspiracy theory: maybe Putin overthrew Yanukovych via fake far right?

One of America's most prominent centrist experts on Eastern Europe, Washington Post columnist Anne Applebaum, whose husband Radoslaw Sikorski, the Polish foreign minister, negotiated a powersharing deal to end the crisis in Kiev that was overridden by the triumph of the streetfighters, insinuates an interesting conspiracy theory in Slate:
Certainly the organization formerly known as the KGB has some expertise in destabilizing foreign countries... a rapidly organized political movement of the far right or far left ... Putin, himself trained in KGB methods, knows all of this very well.
Nor will this be the first time that such games have been played in Ukraine. No one has yet explained, for example, why Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych not only left Kiev after signing an European Union–brokered treaty last week, but also ordered security guards to abandon all government buildings as well. Was that an unsubtle invitation for the opposition to ransack the offices, so that he could claim he had been chased out by a violent coup? The evolution of Ukraine’s “far right” also bears watching. Although at the moment it is a lot smaller than the far right in France or Holland, I wouldn’t be surprised if it begins to grow: It’s amazing how far the ruble goes in a cash-strapped country. A few Molotov cocktails have already been thrown at synagogues. In the current political environment, it’s important to ask: Did they come from real anti-Semites? From paid agents? From both?

Now, note that she doesn't exactly say that the apparently far right streetfighters who played such a sizable role in rendering her husband's diplomacy nugatory were paid for by Putin to provoke a crisis. She's throwing out two ideas in one paragraph without claiming they are aspects of the same phenomenon.

Still, it's an interesting question: how would you know? 

Presumably, fakers wouldn't get themselves killed for a paycheck. But what if the money was going to real nationalist extremists through cut-outs? Of course, the problem with that line of thought is that anything is then possible.

On the other hand, Applebaum's conspiracy theory sounds a little bizarre. My guess is that she's surprised how crazy things got in Kiev and is turning to convoluted thoughts of false flag operations to reassure herself. But who knows?
   
By the way, is her husband related to Władysław Sikorski, leader of the Free Polish government in exile during WWII, whose death in a plane crash at Gibraltar in 1943 has been the subject of endless conspiracy theories? (I have a picture in my head of General Sikorski dying in a helicopter crash, but I'm just confusing him with Igor Sikorsky, the Russian (and somewhat Polish) American from Kiev who did so much to develop helicopters around this time ...)
   

123 comments:

Anonymous said...

RE: Applebaum,

Well, unlike a lot of people, she does actually know Russian (also Polish). And her historical studies (GULAG and IRON CURTAIN) struck me as sound. On the other hand, she does have a strong (understandably so) Polish bias, which would make her somewhat less than sympathetic to the Russians....

Anonymous said...

RE:the theory that Putin is possibly bankrolling far-right elements in Ukraine,

It would be one hell of a bank shot....But one possible point in its favor is that Russian media have been beating the "Ukrainian Uprising is composed of Nazis/Fascists," and Putin is surely savvy enough that few things weigh more against you in the court of elite opinion than being perceived as "Nazi-esque."

Anonymous said...

And since I am sure that people will want to know her ethnic background:


"Applebaum, born in Washington, D.C. in 1964, studied Russian history and literature at Yale University. "Some parts of my family are from Eastern Europe, but so long ago that no one remembers," she tells me as we sit down in a bustling cafe off Portobello Road in London's Notting Hill quarter. That family, she elaborated later in an e-mail, "is Jewish," but Applebaum stresses that "I was brought up in a very reformed American Jewish family" and it's not "a central part of my identity.""

(http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/through-a-communist-looking-glass-then-and-now.premium-1.491882)

Anonymous said...

Some interesting insight into Applebaum's husband's mindset:

"In 1998, Sikorski published a book, "The Polish House: An Intimate History of Poland" (published in the U.S. as "Full Circle: A Homecoming to Free Poland" ), in which he discusses his own family's renovation of that same, by then dilapidated, dwor ("manor house," in Polish ). As well as charting a personal history of Poland, Sikorski outlines the motivation for restoring the house: "In the 19th century, when Poland was wiped off the map of Europe, Polishness was preserved in two places: in church by the peasants, and in the dworek, the manor house, by the nobility ... Out of over ten-thousand manor houses in Poland before the war, less than a thousand survived communist rule, perhaps half of them in a salvageable state... they perished through stupidity and sloth." Sikorski's native city of Bydgoszcz in Western Poland was located not too far from the house."(http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/through-a-communist-looking-glass-then-and-now.premium-1.491882)

Sounds like a man who is pretty committed to the idea of Poland and Polishness.

Anonymous said...

This is American thinking, winning being worthwhile even if the prize is worthless. Putin does not want (the) Ukraine because it is worthless, so Russia would normally do nothing to interfere there. In fact Russia was willing to pay (the) Ukraine to remain independent.

Volksverhetzer said...

The nationalists in the Ukraine are the real deal, but their leaders are either bullshitting the Jews or their own people.

From what I have read about volunteer Swedish nationalists down there, most Ukrainian nationalists don't want the Russian speaking areas, so we could be witnessing a deal between Putin and Ukrainians, no matter if the deal took place in the past, or if it is still to happen.

Anonymous said...

A few Molotov cocktails have already been thrown at synagogues. In the current political environment, it’s important to ask: Did they come from real anti-Semites? From paid agents? From both?

I wish no harm upon anyone. And I am concerned that Jews or other groups might be targeted. But as a non-Jew, I am getting a little frustrated. No Jews have been killed in Ukraine in this recent turmoil, yet their safety seems to be one of the top concerns being expressed in the media.

Where then is the same concern for Christians? Why is it we let loose with regime change in Iraq and did not lift a finger to protect Christians? Why did we foment revolution in Egypt and not lift finger for the Copts? Why is it, based upon the recent persecution of Christians in Iraq and Egypt, we insist on pursuing a similar strategy in Syria where the outcome for Christians will be as bleak?

For once I'd like to see a little recognition that people like me are considered worthy of consideration and protection. Who knows, maybe I might become a bit more enthusiastic with your invade the world strategy.

Orthodox said...

If Putin is playing the very long game......

Putin's real enemies are the Western liberals. The Soviets knew the best way to undermine your enemy was with a 5th column. The anti-Russian Ukranian far right, stripped of its anti-Russian element, has an agenda that looks a hell of a lot like Putin's.

If I was playing the long-game, I'd want to see far right European governments come in and take apart the EU and NATO with assertions of national sovereignty. The types of governments that, say there was a Muslim problem, would come down on the side of Russia and not the Slav-bombing Americans.

Anonymous said...

It's because some of the Western media finally started to look a bit close at who exactly controls Kiev streets. Watch this 2-minute video from BBC. Check out an SS symbol at 0:47.

So Applebaum realized that "peaceful protesters" may not be entirely kosher. And since everyone know that, in this part of the world, Russia is behind everything bad that ever happens, she came up with her little conspiracy theory.

Anonymous said...

"Russian media have been beating the "Ukrainian Uprising is composed of Nazis/Fascists..."

It would be stupid for Putin not to use that line. There's some truth to it and it works with the intended audience.

Stepan Bandera really did collaborate with the Germans during the war. The Right Sector guys really do call themselves Bandera-ites. Yuschenko, a former president of Ukraine heavily supported by the west of the country, really did give Bandera a posthumous "hero of Ukraine" award.

A large majority of Russian and Ukrainian families had someone killed in The War. This includes Putin's family. His older brother died during the blockade of Leningrad, his mom starved there, but survived, his dad served in the army and was heavily wounded. That sort of a list is typical for a Russian his age. The War is a big issue in that part of the world. The glorification of people who fought for the other side puts one beyond the pale in the eyes of most locals.

Anonymous said...

Radoslaw Sikorski is not related to General Sikorski. By the way, Sikorski is a common name in Poland.

Anonymous said...

Stepan Bandera really did collaborate with the Germans during the war.

The US made nice with Stalin, for the purposes of defeating Hitler. That is OK, we are not tarnished. But the Ukrainians made nice with Hitler to break the yoke of the USSR, and they are to be forever condemned.

What would you have done? You are under a communist tyrant regime. Nine years earlier, that regime starved probably 5 million people to death. Now a big army shows up that is the equal to or better of the USSR. You're telling me you are not going to link up with them? It's not like armies like that arrive every day. The US, UK and others were no where to be found.

Anonymous said...

"Sounds like a man who is pretty committed to the idea of Poland and Polishness."

Then why did he marry someone who's not Polish?

"In the 19th century, when Poland was wiped off the map of Europe"

It actually happened in the late 18th century. How come I knew that without looking it up and he didn't? I'm not Polish.

"...most Ukrainian nationalists don't want the Russian speaking areas..."

Their wettest dream is to make eastern Ukrainians into real Ukrainians through reeducation. Ukrainian-only schools, media and government bureaucracy. They want young eastern Ukrainians to absorb the western Ukrainian take on the region's history. They want the Greco-Catholic Church to attract adepts in eastern Ukraine. They say that the Russian Empire and the USSR reeducated eastern Ukrainians into being Russians and that they want to reeducate them back into being Ukrainians. Through coercion. They want to outlaw Russian-language schools, for example.

In reality in past centuries the people of what is now called Ukraine thought of themselves as Russians in Poland, Little Russians or just Russians. The Ukrainian identity is quite recent. It's true that during the Imperial and Soviet periods local speech gradually moved closer to the Moscow standard. They now want to move it back away from it.

ogunsiron said...

" but Applebaum stresses that "I was brought up in a very reformed American Jewish family" and it's not "a central part of my identity.""
Reform jews may not be too keen on the kosher but they seem to care a whole lot about tikkun olam.

"
Sounds like a man who is pretty committed to the idea of Poland and Polishness"
Anyone knows if that man has frankist antecedents ? I've read that the frankist heretics were offered entrance into the Polish nobility.

"The nationalists in the Ukraine are the real deal, but their leaders are either bullshitting the Jews or their own people"

14/88 is pretty much the give away. The west-ukrainian nationalists seem way more nazi than the average european far-rightist. I really don't get the israeli involvment. Bernard-Henry Levy, the "french" super-neocon is on their side too.

Lastly, I find it funny how so many commentators point out that svoboda and the right sector never cracked the 10% barrier and that then means that their ideas aren't popular. Err, maybe people don't bother voting right sector or svoboda because the mainstream parties are adequately racist already ? Ukraine isn't western Europe and I'm pretty sure that racist communists, socialists, liberals(free market guys), conservatives, ecologists are tolerated in their respective parties.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3/2/14, 8:00 PM wrote:

It actually happened in the late 18th century. How come I knew that without looking it up and he didn't? I'm not Polish.

The Russian-ruled portion of the Kingdom of Poland retained some fictive independence into the 18th as a throne ruled in personal union with Russia by the tsar. This is illustrated by the establishment of the state of "Congress Poland" by the Congress of Vienna in 1815. The Russian-ruled portion of Poland only officially lost its sovereignty in 1831.

Anonymous said...

I would say this theory sounds less believable than the 9/11 conspiracies. Actually, a lot less believable. As to why the ousted Ukranian president abandoned his country, the explanation is simple: he is a coward and a thief who lost pretty much all credibility.

Anonymous said...

She isn't saying the street demonstrations that drove out Yanokovich were FSB-driven. Her speculation is 1) the circumstances under which Yanokovich left was suspicious, and perhaps suggested by the FSB in an effort to make the transition look chaotic; and 2) the FSB might, after the fact, support far-right elements in Ukraine to discredit the rest of the movement.

She was not suggesting the Maidan demonstrations were some sort of put-on by the FSB.

I suspect the "rightist elements in the Ukraine" idea is overplayed. Wot's-his-name, the Ukrainian everyone is all upset about, polled about 10% of the vote in the last presidential election. That's less than Le Pen gets in France.

5371 said...

These arsonists were still proud of their handiwork until they realised that Russia wouldn't take it lying down! Only then did they think of a search for the "real killers".

Anonymous said...

The nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party got between 30% and 40% of the vote in the Galician heartland. It's really a regional party. If Galicia were an independent state, it would contend for power in it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.amren.com/features/2014/03/attack-on-the-regime/

Anonymous said...

I suspect the "rightist elements in the Ukraine" idea is overplayed. Wot's-his-name, the Ukrainian everyone is all upset about, polled about 10% of the vote in the last presidential election. That's less than Le Pen gets in France.

Or Zhirinovsky in Russia.

Anonymous said...

This map, "where members of the government were born", tells a lot about the current conflict and what's coming:
http://nbnews.com.ua/ru/img/text/19/ac/13936094650297.jpg

Out of 21 ministers, not a single one was born in the East or South and 14 are from the West area that is only about 25% of the whole country.

Anonymous said...

Igor Sikorsky (Sikorski using the original Polish spelling) although born in Ukraine, was descended from Polish szlachta (nobility). He was an example of a longtime fascination in the Polish culture with flying machines. In 1650 Casimir Siemienowicz was the first to work out a comprehensive design for multistage rockets, and Konstanty Ciolkowski (in Russian Tsiolkovsky) (1857-1935) was one of the fathers of astronautics. I don't know if there is a connection but Warsaw (and London and Franfurt) are the only cities in Europe with many skyscrapers

Anonymous said...

http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2014/03/crisis-in-crimea.html

Anonymous said...

http://spectator.org/articles/57157/bizarre-and-jejune

Anonymous said...

American Hustle

Mitt Romney of the Oscars

Total loser

Miguel S. said...

Her columns in this and related subjects simply ought to carry a disclaimer about who her husband is. Then you can decided for yourself if she's shilling for him.

5371 said...

Tsiolkovskii and Sikorsky were Russians, and Copernicus was a German.

Anonymous said...

Yeah right.

Just another pile of steaming horse shit, like all the various '911' conspiracies, (explosives were hidden in the structure of the towers), or all the fuckwit JFK consparicies.

I don't know why people do this. Are they trying to be funny, or are they trying to show off that they are 'cleverer' than you or I, I really don't know - but take it from me, all these over complicated over confounded 'secret conspiracies' in which so-called 'experts' and others impute al these 'clever-clever' little twists, sub-plots, pay-offs, kick-backs, plans etc are nothing but pure shit - they embarass the people who actually take them seriously, and as for 'experts' who really, seriously, propound them, well the less said the better.
The truth is more prosaic - peole, humans are simply dumb, evil, greedy, nasty, hot-headed and unthinking.

Jason said...

Miguel S., Applebaum has mentioned her husband quite a few times in her columns over the years; to do so every time a potential conflict of interest appears would become redundant. Anyway, all of her consistent readers know very well that she is married to an important Pole; it's not exactly a secret.

Incidentially, I don't agree with this meme that Applebaum is somehow gung-ho pro-Pole and anti-Russian. She has a great empathy for the Russians, while at the same time recognizing the sad truth that rather than acknowledging their own pain and suffering Russians often simply like inflicting it on others.

Anonymous said...

I very much doubt that those nationalists are part of some conspiracy. More likely is that Western liberals conspired to make Ukraine a liberal puppet, and these street battling nationalists are an unforeseen side effect.

The narrative was simple, a corrupt old fashioned ruler replaced with a modern liberal regime that embraces all the good things in life LGBT, open borders, eurocrats etc, surely Ukraine could only go that way. These other factions were probably not thought of.

Anonymous said...

"For once I'd like to see a little recognition that people like me are considered worthy of consideration and protection. Who knows, maybe I might become a bit more enthusiastic with your invade the world strategy."

Playing the victim card is never going to work if you are in one of the following: Christian, White, Male etc. Trying to invoke sympathy for your plight (no matter how legitimate it is) will fall on deaf ears and at best earn mocking laughter. It is better to approach this as a Machiavellian power struggle, any other approach will probably lead to more the same: ever increasing powerlessness.

Dave Pinsen said...

Take a gander at what happened to the Russian stock market on Monday.

5371 said...

Yes, all countries reverse entirely their policies affecting their own vital interests if they experience a down day on the stock market. You couldn't make it up.

scottlocklin said...

That unutterable swinebag, Tim Snyder is saying something similar. According to him, Svoboda were ... previously ... in the pay of Yanukovych. Um, no. I know these guys. Personally. They'd eat Yanu's liver if they could; and when I met them in person it was 2010.
Anyway, 100% probability this is boilerplate from State Department goons who just can't compute Ukrainian politics are ... that right wing. I'm sorry, Mrs. Kagan; even the left wingers are that right wing.

Amusingly, almost 100% of the commenters on his obscene NY review of books thing are on the side of righteousness.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/?insrc=hpss

dearieme said...

"Then why did he marry someone who's not Polish?" An affair of the heart?

Hunsdon said...

Miguel S. said: Her columns in this and related subjects simply ought to carry a disclaimer about who her husband is. Then you can decided for yourself if she's shilling for him.

Hunsdon said: Absolutely, brother! For a while, I would introduce her articles as "Per the wife of the Polish foreign minister," and then on.

Of course, it could set a bad example, that kind of daylight. People might start to see all kinds of connections.

Hunsdon said...

Our host said: She's throwing out two ideas in one paragraph without claiming they are aspects of the same phenomenon.

Hunsdon said: If she'd said "dollar" I might believe that, and it would make sense if she said "hrynia," but she didn't. She said "ruble" and "ruble" I think is what she exactly meant.

Lex said...

Sikorski is a traitor, all he wants is international recognition just like Tusk.

Tusk is even more interesting case than Sikorski - he tried to start Kashubian secession movement(he talked how he despise Poland) but he was told to GTFO by rest of Kashubians(his speeches were booed). Then he started tatcherist-libertarian party - KLD - which later joined polish-jewish party - UD - and formed UW - party where everyone where either jewish, szlachta or ethnic minority. As you can imagine they didn't care too much about Poles of peasant origin. Right now he rises taxes(especially for food, that is for poorest) and tries to impose Euro on Poland. And dreams about position in Brussels.

Anonymous said...

"She has a great empathy for the Russians..."

Falser words were never spoken. I mean, literally, that phrase has zero truth content.

These arsonists were still proud of their handiwork until they realised that Russia wouldn't take it lying down! Only then did they think of a search for the "real killers".

I agree.

Steve Sailer said...

She seems like a good wife, loyal to her husband's cause, taking on his Polish citizenship.

SFG said...

"She seems like a good wife, loyal to her husband's cause, taking on his Polish citizenship"

You have to admit, a Jew shilling for Poland is pretty funny.

Then again, the NYT's Cohen's actually come out and said Germany deserves a second chance. At least *someone's* starting to get over these stupid WW2 or pre-WW2-era grudges. Waaaay too many of my odious relatives are still fighting the Czar.

Anonymous said...

"Sounds like a man who is pretty committed to the idea of Poland and Polishness."

Anonymous:"Then why did he marry someone who's not Polish?"

I'll take a shot in the dark here. Maybe love? Plus, perhaps he assumes that his fervent "Polishness" will engulf her and their children.

Anonymous said...

"In the 19th century, when Poland was wiped off the map of Europe"

Anonymous:"It actually happened in the late 18th century. How come I knew that without looking it up and he didn't? I'm not Polish."

One assumes that Sikorski is referring to this:


"Poles rebelled several times against the partitioners, particularly near the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century. One of the most famous and successful attempts at securing renewed Polish independence took place in 1794, during the Kościuszko Uprising, at the Racławice where Tadeusz Kosciuszko, a popular and distinguished general who had served under Washington in America, led peasants and some Polish regulars into battle against numerically superior Russian forces. In 1807, Napoleon I of France recreated a Polish state, the Duchy of Warsaw, but after the Napoleonic Wars, Poland was again divided by the victorious Allies at the Congress of Vienna of 1815. The eastern part was ruled by the Russian tsar as a Congress Kingdom which possessed a very liberal constitution. However, the tsars soon reduced Polish freedoms, and Russia annexed the country in virtually all but name." (WIKIPEDIA)

Anonymous said...

Interesting to note that Applebaum is thinking about doing a book on the Ukrainian famine:

"Looking to her own future, however, Applebaum feels herself being drawn back to the communist period. "I would like to write a book about the Ukrainian famine in the 1930s. It's another kind of use of state power that is not very well understood." The famine is known is "holodomor" in Ukrainian ("hunger extermination" ), and was one of Stalin's campaigns against the country's peasants, culminating in 1933 with the deaths of millions." (http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/through-a-communist-looking-glass-then-and-now.premium-1.491882)

Jerry said...

Applebaum even co-wrote a Polish cookbook last year, it's a pretty good one.

Tusk is doing what he can... he's been centrally involved in politics for more than two decades now, and it shows. He appears rather burned out. Alas, Poland has made, in stages, a Faustian bargain with the EU--market access and "privatization" in exchange for some aid, and Poland's access to Western markets. The aid is starting to make a difference in infrastructure, but EU regulations probably cost Poland as much as it gets.

Altogether I don't get the anti-EU venom here... America has a darker demographic and cultural future, and it is bereft of (or has been deprived of) the more solid historical habits of nationhood. You guys let Detroit and St Louis and Baltimore get destroyed...

Anonymous said...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/what-to-do-about-putins-invasion-of-ukraine/article/2544931

Barone and Mead, puppets of neocons.

Anonymous said...

"14/88 is pretty much the give away. The west-ukrainian nationalists seem way more nazi than the average european far-rightist. I really don't get the israeli involvment. Bernard-Henry Levy, the "french" super-neocon is on their side too."

They are small potatoes, powerless pawns. In contrast, Putin has real power.

Mr. Anon said...

From what I gather, the Poles also do not like Right Sector and other vaguely (or not so vaguely) Banderist organizations in Ukraine. In that they have something in common with the Russians. Although, they probably don't like the fact that the Russians are contemplating military invtervention.

Ukraine should have been left as an explicitly neutral buffer state between east and west. Those foreign policy scumbags should not have monkeyed around with it.

kaganovitch said...

The money quote from Snyder article breaks new ground in diversity derangement - "Has it ever before happened that people associated with Ukrainian, Russian, Belarusian, Armenian, Polish, and Jewish culture have died in a revolution that was started by a Muslim? Can we who pride ourselves in our diversity and tolerance think of anything remotely similar in our own histories?"

Anonymous said...

http://www.vdare.com/articles/john-derbyshire-asks-island-race-no-more

1200 yrs a slave for britons

Anonymous said...

Sikorski (Mr. Applebaum) attended Oxford and was a British citizen for twenty years.

He also dated the noted English actress Olivia Williams, whom Applebaum mentions briefly in one of her columns. Definitely a step down in looks.

Anonymous said...

Applebaum

They're backing out now cos they know they screwed it up.

Anonymous said...

"I really don't get the israeli involvment. Bernard-Henry Levy, the "french" super-neocon is on their side too."

All the super neocons were in the square because it was a standard western oligarch coup using whatever local materials were available. They don't care if the only available materials are al-quaeda or ultra nationalist because if successful they can deal with them later.

What this is is US state department people looking for the exit now because it went wrong and there'll probably have to be a scapegoat.

.

"As to why the ousted Ukranian president abandoned his country, the explanation is simple: he is a coward and a thief who lost pretty much all credibility."

A simpler and much more likely explanation would be Putin told him to hold back because what the neocons wanted was clearcut TV images to manipulate public opinion.

By stepping back Putin left the neocons talking about democracy while holding a coup.

.

I'd say Sikorski could be a Polish ultra-nationalist or betray Poland to the neocons or both at once and on the same afternoon.

Anonymous said...

addendum

That's not to say Putin might not try and buy the Ukraine nationalists now they know the EU/US were planning to cut them out all along.

Anonymous said...

Traditionally, as newcomers became more Anglo-Americanized, they became more patriotic, more conservative, and more Republican.

So, Jews pushed multi-culturalism that tried to prevent newcomers from identifying with wasps and waspized whites/immigrants.

It worked.

But with the wasp elites having been so Liberalized and beholden to Jews, maybe Jews are thinking it's better to have newcomers identify with SWPL-stuff, whereas if they remain loyal to their own culture, they're less likely to support stuff like 'gay marriage'.

In Europe, the turn away from multi-culti is partly due to the fact that newcomers won't sign onto Liberal values and agendas.

So, multi-culti was a strategy, not a principle.

Anonymous said...

Oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky says:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/march-3-updates-on-ukraine-crisis/?_php=true&_type=blogs&src=twt&twt=thelede&_r=0#khodorkovsky-offers-to-mediate-in-ukraine

"I have family and friends who are Ukrainians. Just as it is for others, for me this is a family affair.

I declare that I am ready to travel to any location in Ukraine at any time at the invitation of any responsible actor in order to help prevent bloodshed. I believe that the presence of independent and internationally-known individuals in Ukraine at this time could help prevent the escalation of the conflict."


Oh I bet it is a family affair, Mikhail....

Anonymous said...

David Cameron vows British gov't will boycott the Sochi retard olympics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/sports/international/british-officials-to-boycott-sochi-paralympics-over-russian-intervention-in-ukraine.html

fondatori said...

I'm sure most people will read this but here is from Theodore Dalrymple's column, where he got from his Ukrainian plumber in France the idea that:

"Everyone there was corrupt, nothing was possible without bribery, the opposition was as bad as the government, and all political demonstrations, which were frequent even then, were entirely bogus. Indeed, political demonstrations had become a form of social security, the political system’s corrupt and vastly rich oligarchs paying a small daily subvention to the otherwise unemployed who agreed to demonstrate in their favor."

http://takimag.com/article/the_wisdom_of_a_ukrainian_plumber_theodore_dalrymple/print#ixzz2uvAWcYDt

reiner Tor said...

Tusk is even more interesting case than Sikorski - he tried to start Kashubian secession movement(he talked how he despise Poland) but he was told to GTFO by rest of Kashubians(his speeches were booed).

I tried to find something on this, but couldn't. Is there any source for these statements? All I could find that he was a member of a Kashubian movement (apparently still existant, and purely or mostly cultural), and worked with a Kashubian leader called Badkowski (again a mostly cultural personality). But no word on separatism.

So what does "secession movement" mean here? English was not sung at my cradle, so maybe I misunderstood it, but I thought it was some sort of separatist movement.

However, I found an interesting quote on his Wikipedia page, which - need I say? - does not endear him to me:

Tusk compared his own family history to the Jewish experience, describing the Kashubian minority as a people who, "like the Jews, are people who were born and live in border areas and were suspected by the Nazis and by the Communists of being disloyal".[4]

riches said...

If Yale grad Applebaum is "trying to show off that (she's) 'cleverer' than you or I [sic]", she isn't convincing. How can she write, "signing an European Union–brokered ..."?

Anonymous said...

China backs Russia:

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/asia/story/china-says-it-backs-principles-ukraine-russia-claims-agreement-20140303

reiner Tor said...

all of her consistent readers know very well that she is married to an important Pole; it's not exactly a secret.

No, but some of her readers will inevitably be new readers, who have read nothing from her before, or have long forgotten anything they might have known about her. This is especially bound to happen with her most influential pieces, which reach the largest audience: these will be with the lowest percentage of her readers knowing who she is.

Such disclaimers (also about writers ethnicity) should in my opinion be incorporated into all articles. If I recommend a stock to buy, I need to put a disclaimer if I hold (or don't hold) the stock in question. If I'm writing about things like foreign policy (or immigration, multiculturalism, etc.), my ethnicity (and my spouse's ethnicity) are bound to color my judgement. Why would I need to hide it?

Big Bill said...

I don't get this (pretend) surprise at Ukrainian nationalist "anti-Semitism" for heaven's sake.

ALL the Ukrainians honor Bogdan Chmielewski as a founder/liberator of the Ukrainian people. Statues, streets, public parks, the guy's name is all over the Ukraine.

At the same time he is a hero of the Ukrainians, ol' Bogdan is the second biggest Jewish boogieman (i.e. after Hitler) for clearing out the Jewish Slav-owners back in 1648.

fondatori said...

Also - Femen, the original fake protest group 'originated' in Ukraine. They were 'models' hired to protest naked. This was reported in the media as if it were models spontaneously deciding to take off their clothes to protest sex-trafficking. Now of course its a group of models and strippers paid to 'protest' Christian groups internationally so now presumably in favor of sex-trafficking.

Anyway, the Ukrainians have some experience creating fake protest groups.

Anonymous said...

And today we find out that certain oligarchs have been appointed to control the industrial regions of the country:

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-oligarch-rule-governors-512/

"The appointments of new governors of Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk Regions are among 18 made on Sunday by Kiev, which is struggling to consolidate power after the coup which ousted President Yanukovich last month.

The newly-appointed Dnepropetrovsk governor is Igor Kolomoysky, Ukraine’s third-wealthiest man, with an estimated fortune of $2.4 billion. He co-owns the informal commercial group Privat, which includes Ukraine’s largest bank Privatbank, which Kolomoysky heads, as well as assets in the oil, ferroalloys and food industries, agriculture and transport.

A former ally of Yulia Tymoshenko, Kolomoysky reportedly had a falling out with her and refused to finance her election campaign in 2010, which the ex-prime minister subsequently lost to Yanukovich. Kolomoysky was reported to be a principal sponsor of the UDAR party, which is one of the three fueling the street campaign to oust Yanukovich. Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship and controls his business empire from Switzerland."

Anonymous said...

Most heartbreaking film from Maidan I have seen.

Pravy Sektor building bardicade under gunfire:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc8-q4WPoK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBPuoLa3jmM#t=160

Anonymous said...

'Fraid I've never taken Anne Applebaum seriously as a thinker. Her books on the USSR were pretty derivative and much of her commentary in the UK Spectator and Telegraph was out to lunch.

Her latest conspiracy theory seems like more claptrap.

Occam's Razor. Stick with it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"I wish no harm upon anyone. And I am concerned that Jews or other groups might be targeted. But as a non-Jew, I am getting a little frustrated. No Jews have been killed in Ukraine in this recent turmoil, yet their safety seems to be one of the top concerns being expressed in the media. Where then is the same concern for Christians?"


Iron Law of U.S. media: Christians are expendable. Jews are not.

Why this law exists I'll allow others to elaborate upon.

Anonymous said...

The Swedish far-right nationalists at motgift.nu, who have been following the protests closely all along and have party ties to Svoboda, were quite fired up about the results and are now hosting the reports of Swedish volunteers on their website. Their sincere long-term support seems like a strong vote against Ms Applebaum's conspiracy theory.

Anonymous said...

"A large majority of Russian and Ukrainian families had someone killed in The War. This includes Putin's family. His older brother died during the blockade of Leningrad, his mom starved there, but survived, his dad served in the army and was heavily wounded. That sort of a list is typical for a Russian his age. The War is a big issue in that part of the world. The glorification of people who fought for the other side puts one beyond the pale in the eyes of most locals."

Since we are talkin about the fans of Stepan Bandera and his movement. I would like to mention that they did somethin worse than being friendly to the Germans during the war. They engaged in ethnic cleansing, killing a large amount of Poles in Volhynia and members of other minorities.

Anonymous said...

Here's a counter theory for Anne Applebaum:

The EU and the US decided to piss all over Russia's front door.

The Bear has now come storming out looking to do some damage in retaliation.

The advantage of this theory is that it bears some resemblance to the facts on the ground.

Unlike Anne's...

Anonymous said...

The KGB engineered anti-Semitic crimes in West Germany back in the 1950s to embarrass and discredit the West German government. The scheme was discovered when one of the conspirators was arrested in possession of his Communist Party card.

Bill said...

Didn't Victoria Nuland just get done bragging about the $5 billion the US spent to foment this revolution? Didn't her choice just ascend to the presidency of the fake government in Kiev?

WTF is Applebaum even talking about?

Yeah, Anne it sucks how American and Ukrainian Jews just paid a bunch of US taxpayer dollars to maybe put the Nazis in charge of Ukraine. Maybe if y'all promoted people on the basis of merit rather than nepotism, there wouldn't be so many Nulands and Kagans slithering around, messing things up, making Putin look like a freaking genius.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that Anne's family jewish background is an issue, but her family cold war background is.
In all her writings she is more of an ideologue, than a journalist and her antipathy towards Russians is always clear.
If to dwell on conspiracies, what about this one:
Her husband fought Soviets in Afghanistan side by side with Mujahideen using pen and AK47. He was trained by CIA as Mujahideen was. Nobody even trying to deny CIA involvement in Ukraine Spring.
What if Mr. Sikorski was involved in this mess as a CIA "friend"?

Anonymous said...

Don't credit the cockamamie idea that Applebaum's attempting to float. The far right guys were America's guys, just like the Al Quaeda guys in Syria are America's guys. They were encouraged to do the wet work. The slicksters - the bankers, OSI-types, diplomats - were waiting in the wings to conduct a passage of lines when the tough guys had achieved control.

Putin has pointed out all along their anti-Semitism, nationalism, anti-deluvian worldview (not that there's anything wrong with the latter of those) to attempt to undermine them.

Now that it's apparent these knaves are of no use against an army, the U.S. is spinning this new narrative about them to impugn Russia. They're tools - pawns in a chess game badly played by the U.S. They're being played.

Applebaum is a neo-con plain and simple. She's carrying water for the same crowd that promoted this putsch. Check her out:

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/applebaum_anne

Whiskey said...

People get scared about neo nazis bc it never ends with just Jews ... Slavs, Poles etc.

Anonymous said...

"She has a great empathy for the Russians..."

"Falser words were never spoken. I mean, literally, that phrase has zero truth content."

She has sympathy for Russians as victims of Russian communists and Nazis. But she's pretty mum about Jewish role in communism. She hints at it but doesn't go beyond it. Same with Timmy snide Synder.

Anonymous said...

"I'm just a soldier, a Polish soldier, away from home, through no wish of my own."

Anonymous said...

"No Jews have been killed in Ukraine in this recent turmoil, yet their safety seems to be the top concern expressed in the media."

Who do you think owns and controls the media sport?

Chubby Ape said...

The Russian ambassador to the UN said today that "it is necessary to ensure compliance with the obligations set in the agreement on 21 February" so Anne Applebaum can no longer claim the Russians are trying to dodge it, as she does in that Slate article.
Link: Russia calls for implementation of agreement between Yanukovych opposition

ATBOTL said...

Neocons have long pushed the ludicrous conspiracy theory that Putin bombed Moscow as an excuse to invade Chechnya(as if he needed an excuse).

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone can correct me, but from what I undestand, the solution preferred by Russia now is a reorgnization of the Ukraine into a loose confederation of two almost-independent-from-each-other parts. The eastern provinces would hold referendums on joining the eastern part. Each of the two parts would have its own language policy. Maybe the eastern part will even join the Eurasian Union? The EU will not want the western part of course.

Western Ukraine will be very dissatisfied with such a solution. First, it's poor. Right now it's subsidized by eastern Ukraine. Second, it wanted to impose "the Ukrainian language" and its own view of local history on eastern Ukraine through the educational system and the media. In the setup outlined above eastern Ukraine will set its own educational policy.

The neocons will be against any peaceful resolution of the conflict because they want Russians and Ukrainians fighting each other. Divide and rule.

Anonymous said...

Svoboda has Defense ministry and Prosecutor General office in the interim govt. How long before they are eased out?

Geoff Matthews said...

I'm from Alberta, and Alberta has a lot of Ukrainians. So much, that on my high school transcript, its listed as one of four languages that instruction could occur in (the others being English, French and German).
I'm more sympathetic towards the Ukrainians in this conflict, but there is no way that they are keeping the Crimean. They can cede the Crimean to Russia, and hopefully avoid a war, or they can fight over it, and lose more of their country.
There is no way that Ukraine comes out of this conflict with the Crimean still within their borders.

Dan said...

HP Lovecraft was right!

The stats prove it. Even the Germans were trashy by comparison with the saintly Anglo-Welsh.

Anonymous said...

"Ukraine should have been left as an explicitly neutral buffer state between east and west. Those foreign policy scumbags should not have monkeyed around with it."

Yup

.

http://takimag.com/article/the_wisdom_of_a_ukrainian_plumber_theodore_dalrymple/print#ixzz2uvAWcYDt

That article pretty much sums up what rule by oligarch means.

.

"And today we find out that certain oligarchs have been appointed to control the industrial regions of the country:"

There's a shock. I wonder how many looting contracts have been signed since the govt was changed.

(Not that pro-Russian oligarchs were any better.)

.

"The neocons will be against any peaceful resolution of the conflict because they want Russians and Ukrainians fighting each other. Divide and rule."

Although that gives Putin an opportunity to win both ways 1) get the south and east into a separate political unit and 2) cut a deal with the west Ukraine nationalists to get rid of the pro-EU oligarchs in the west.

The second might be easier said than done but those guys are just being used by the baddies so it's possible, maybe.

.

"Svoboda has Defense ministry and Prosecutor General office in the interim govt. How long before they are eased out?"

Not long.

Anonymous said...

One thing Putin could do is make a move that seems to threaten the business interests of one of the pro EU oligarchs to try and provoke a reaction.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"She has sympathy for Russians as victims of Russian communists and Nazis. But she's pretty mum about Jewish role in communism. She hints at it but doesn't go beyond it. Same with Timmy snide Synder."

Talking in an intelligent manner about the Jewish role in the Soviet Union is rather tough going, seeing as how one has to maneuver between lunatics ("The Jews were in complete control of the Soviet Union until at least the 1950s") and apologists ("the Jews have never had agency since the rise of Christianity; Trotsky does not count because he was an atheist, etc").

Bearing those considerations in mind, I thought that Applebaum did a fairly decent job discussing the role played by communist Jews in Hungary in her IRON CURTAIN.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see Crimea become a second Tatarstan, e.g. a thorn in the side for Russia.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Steve, this is slightly off-topic, but what would you say is the best historical parallel to the role played by Ashkenazi Jewry in Russia/the Soviet Union from 1917-1939?

I've been racking my brain. Maybe the disproportionate role played by Virginia from 1788-1824 (the so-called Virginia dynasty)? Or maybe the role played by the South as a whole from 1788 to 1861? Of course, the Jews never occupied the top chair* in the Soviet Union, so maybe something more like the role played by Scotland in the 18th and 19th centuries? Not occupying the seat of power, but wielding a lot of backstage power and influence (Adam Smith, James Watt, Carlyle, William Blackwood, Sir Walter Scott, Macaulay, etc)?

*One can't really count Lenin (one quarter Jewish in ancestry), unless some strong evidence exists that his Jewish ancestry meant something to him. To the best of my knowledge, it did not.

Anonymous said...

One can't really count Lenin (one quarter Jewish in ancestry), unless some strong evidence exists that his Jewish ancestry meant something to him. To the best of my knowledge, it did not.

Lenin was also 1/4 Tatar, but nobody makes a big fuss over that.

Anonymous said...

Most heartbreaking film from Maidan I have seen.

Pravy Sektor building bardicade under gunfire:


I watched that, to me it looks as if the gunfire is directed at driving those people back. The guys firing are not actively trying tio hit anyone. If they are, then they are very poor marksmen.

5371 said...

Lenin was also 1/4 Tatar, but nobody makes a big fuss over that.

Actually Kalmyk.

reiner Tor said...

One can't really count Lenin (one quarter Jewish in ancestry), unless some strong evidence exists that his Jewish ancestry meant something to him. To the best of my knowledge, it did not.

He was as philo-Semitic as it gets, endlessly praising the Jews for their intelligence, revolutionary fervor, etc.

However, what people often miss is that it's not Jews per se who are problematic, but being of another race/ethnic group. Lenin was definitely aware that whatever he was, he had very little Russian blood flowing in his veins, and he hated Russia and the Russians, often disparaging their traditions, their sloth, their culture, religion, just about everything about them.

Now Jews are also non-majority, and usually intensely dislike (to put it mildly) many or most aspects of the majority culture. Having such people (whether Jewish or not) as an elite is bound to be disastrous, as the history of the USSR amply proves it. It's nice if your elites at least have some minimal feeling for you. (Like the Russian elites in the USSR after Stalin's death. Khruschev was a mass murderer, but he still could sympathize with the ordinary peasants, and spent a third of the USSR gold reserves in the early 60s to avoid mass starvation. Stalin would never have done that, neither Lenin, Trotsky, or most of the other non-Russians.)

reiner Tor said...

Talking in an intelligent manner about the Jewish role in the Soviet Union is rather tough going, seeing as how one has to maneuver between lunatics ("The Jews were in complete control of the Soviet Union until at least the 1950s") and apologists ("the Jews have never had agency since the rise of Christianity; Trotsky does not count because he was an atheist, etc").

+1

szopeno said...

That's not Applebaum theory. ZIemkiewicz wrote that first. He started by reminding how skillfully Russian Okhrana discredited Polish emigration circles in XIX century. They simply installed agents who were most vocally patriotic, screaming "anyone who wishes to come to agreement with RUssia is Russian agent!" and creating most bizarre projects while accusing moderates of not being patriotic enough.

It's not speculation (about Okhrana) - we now, 100 years later, know who was the agent (but we still don't know who wasn't :)).

Sikorski is not related to Władysław Sikorski.

szopeno said...

@ reiner Tor
The supposed Tusk quote about how he despise Poland is a modified version of his real essay about Polishness. The skillfull PR guy changed few words and omitted some comas, and an idiotic essay (which nevertheless shown Tusk loves Poland and Polishness) was turn into anti-Polish diatribe. I don't know how this will sound in English, since English has no free word order, but for example in original Tusk wrote something like this:"The Polishness ... is more beatifull than this Poland on earth, poor and dirt". After correction, the sentence sounded "An escape from Poland is more beautifull than Poland"

For Poles, the original version is presented for example here:
http://lubczasopismo.salon24.pl/slaskiesprawy/post/293680,slaskosc-kaszubskosc-polskosc-i-tusk
(Note that Kurski's distributed version in which "Piekniejsza od Polski, jest ucieczką..." is changed into "piękniejsza od Polski jest ucieczka..."

neil craig said...

The possible size of conspiracies is limited by numbers, like soap bubbles and for the same reason. The bigger they are the tension and more inevitable some break will appear. (This can be mitigated by having a system of killing anybody who breaks, hence the Mafia is a larger organisation than Skull & Bones.

But that, in turn means that if they win the new government is going to include a lot of people who don't know they are part of the conspiracy and will follow it official agenda.

This was why the CIA theory that the Sino-Soviet split was a fake designed to lure the US into taking China under their own wing was silly. If they had done it the soviets would have ended up with 1,300,000,000 Chinese enemies only a dozen of whom would have known they weren't enemies.

In the same way Putin is not silly enough to fund an anti-Russian coup. Granted the CIA were silly enough to fund al Quaeda during the previous Afghan war, but that takes exceptional stupidity.

RS said...

> "In the 19th century, when Poland was wiped off the map of Europe"

> It actually happened in the late 18th century. How come I knew that without looking it up and he didn't? I'm not Polish.

It may be a language issue, if he's not a native speaker. He may have meant to refer primarily to the period of there being no Poland, not the onset of that period.

Anonymous said...

Reiner Tor:"He was as philo-Semitic as it gets, endlessly praising the Jews for their intelligence, revolutionary fervor, etc."

But one does not have to think of oneself as a Jew to be a Judeophile. Furthermore, praising Russian Jews for their intelligence and revolutionary fervor was being factually correct.

Reiner Tor:"However, what people often miss is that it's not Jews per se who are problematic, but being of another race/ethnic group. Lenin was definitely aware that whatever he was, he had very little Russian blood flowing in his veins, and he hated Russia and the Russians, often disparaging their traditions, their sloth, their culture, religion, just about everything about them."

Well, I can find you more than a few White Gentile Americans who despise White Gentile America....

Anonymous:"Now Jews are also non-majority, and usually intensely dislike (to put it mildly) many or most aspects of the majority culture."

Well, doesn't that make them like most elite groups? Kennen, for example, abominated the culture of the majority of Americans.


Anonymous:" Having such people (whether Jewish or not) as an elite is bound to be disastrous, as the history of the USSR amply proves it. It's nice if your elites at least have some minimal feeling for you. (Like the Russian elites in the USSR after Stalin's death. Khruschev was a mass murderer, but he still could sympathize with the ordinary peasants, and spent a third of the USSR gold reserves in the early 60s to avoid mass starvation. Stalin would never have done that, neither Lenin, Trotsky, or most of the other non-Russians.)"

Again, I would like more evidence that Lenin saw himself as non-Russian. As for Stalin, although very much a Georgian, it is fascinating how much he came to identify with Russia itself (cf his speeches during WW2, where he invokes the heroes of Tsarist Russia, addresses his audience not as comrades but as brothers and sisters, boasts of giving Russia an empire greater than any it had ever known, etc.).

Anonymous said...

"Well, doesn't that make them like most elite groups? Kennen, for example, abominated the culture of the majority of Americans."

Out of love than out of hate for his own people. He thought the culture was being corrupted.

Anonymous said...

"Well, I can find you more than a few White Gentile Americans who despise White Gentile America...."

Guess who taught them to hate other whites.
Who controls the colleges and media?

Anonymous said...

"Lenin was also 1/4 Tatar, but nobody makes a big fuss over that.
Actually Kalmyk."

If someone is 1/4 white, 1/4 black. 1/4 Vietnamese, and 1/4 Mexican and excels in sports, which racial DNA is most likely at work?

Lenin became famous for radical politics and intellectualism. How many Tatars are famous for that?
How many Jews are famous for that?
So, which set of DNA do you think was more at work in Lenin? The Jewish or tatar?

Silver said...

Playing the victim card is never going to work if you are in one of the following: Christian, White, Male etc.

Total bullshit. Whites have been steadily accumulating a mountain of latent victimhood capital over the last fifty years; to refuse to play the victim card now would be to squander untold amounts of soft power.

As I've said here before, I've had many an occasion to grow bitter towards the white man (anglo/nw european) but I was always more interested in respecting him for what he did well and attempting to emulate his example. Discovering the world of internet-based WN caused me to rethink things, because while I was aware of white racial resentment I was astonished by the depths it could reach; but I've come to believe that branch of politics is an irrelevant distraction.

My position this. Quite simply, the world would not exist as we know it had it not been for the white man. It would be a world culturally and materially almost infinitely poorer. No people have a perfect history, but the white man has largely done right by the world. In return, the world has given him little besides grief. The only moral conclusion I can draw is that this world owes the white man, at a minimum, a big fat apology.

Anonymous said...

"Talking in an intelligent manner about the Jewish role in the Soviet Union is rather tough going"

According to Solzhenitsyn's book the Bolshevik concentration camps were divided into twelve regional commands with an overall director and of those thirteen men twelve were Jews and the thirteenth was married to a Jew.

ATBOTL said...

Walter Russell Mead has been saying so much stupid stuff lately that it will provide years of wrong predictions to ridicule.


Anonymous said...

Lenin became famous for radical politics and intellectualism. How many Tatars are famous for that?

If classical music composition can be counted as intellectualism, then Rachmaninoff could qualify. He was from a sub-nation of Tatars that converted to the Orthodox Church.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"Guess who taught them to hate other whites."

Elite SWPL Whites.



anonymous:"Who controls the colleges and media?"

Elite Whites

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"Out of love than out of hate for his own people. He thought the culture was being corrupted."

By other white people.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"If someone is 1/4 white, 1/4 black. 1/4 Vietnamese, and 1/4 Mexican and excels in sports, which racial DNA is most likely at work?"

Depends on the sport. Swimming, probably the Caucasoid 1/4.I am assuming, of course, that by 1/4 "Mexican" you mean 1/4 Amerind.

Anonymous:"Lenin became famous for radical politics and intellectualism. How many Tatars are famous for that?
How many Jews are famous for that?
So, which set of DNA do you think was more at work in Lenin? The Jewish or tatar?"

Well, Lenin's purely Gentile father seems to have been a pretty smart guy: "Ilya Ulyanov graduated from Kazan University's Department of Physics and Mathematics in 1854. In 1850s and 1860s, he was a mathematics and physics teacher at Penza Institute for the Dvoryane, and later at a gymnasium and a school for women in Nizhny Novgorod. Around that time, he married Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova. While in Penza, Ulyanov conducted meteorological observations, on the basis of which he would write a couple of scientific works called On the Benefits of Meteorological Observations and Some Conclusions on Their Use for Penza [...]
In 1869, Ulyanov was appointed inspector of public schools in the Simbirsk guberniya (in 1874-1886 - their director). In 1882, Ulyanov was promoted to the rank of Actual Civil Councellor, which gave him a privilege of hereditary dvoryanstvo and accompanied with the award of the Order of St.Vladimir, 3rd Class.
Ilya Ulyanov was a well-educated man with excellent organizational and teaching skills. Some Soviet historians believed that his pedagogical views had been formed under the influence of the revolutionary ideas of Nikolai Chernyshevsky and Nikolai Dobrolyubov. Ulyanov contributed immensely to elaboration of theory and practice of elementary education. He was an advocate of equal rights for education regardless of gender, nationality and social status. In 1871, Ulyanov opened the first Chuvash school in Simbirsk, which would later be transformed into Chuvash teacher's seminary. He also established national schools for Mordvins and Tatars. Furthermore, Ulyanov organized and presided over many teacher's congresses and other events of the similar kind." (WIKIPEDIA)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:"Lenin became famous for radical politics and intellectualism. How many Tatars are famous for that?
How many Jews are famous for that?
So, which set of DNA do you think was more at work in Lenin? The Jewish or tatar?"

My understanding is that Jewish radicalism is cultural, not genetic , in origin. Jews tend to radical politics because they are a minority group. Hence, I'm not sure how Lenin's one quarter Jewish background could have influenced him, unless there is evidence to show that his Jewish ancestry was important to him.

Anonymous said...

RE: Lenin's ancestry,

One might also point out that Lenin's mother was half Jewish and half German-Swedish:

"Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova (born Maria Alexandrovna Blank; 6 March [O.S. 22 February] 1835 — 25 July [O.S. 12 July] 1916)[1] was the mother of Vladimir Lenin, the Bolshevik revolutionary leader and founder of the Soviet Union.
Ulyanova was one of six children born in Saint Petersburg. Her father was Alexandr Blank (born Israel Blank), a well-to-do physician who was a Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity. Her mother, Anna Ivanovna Groschopf, was the daughter of a German father, Johann Groschopf, and a Swedish mother, Anna Östedt." (WIKIPEDIA)

So, on the maternal side, Lenin was 25% Ashkenazi Jewish, 12 and a half percent Swedish, and 12 and a half percent German. Or grouping it somewhat differently, 25% Ashkenazi Jewish and 25% Gentile Northwestern European.

Anonymous said...

"My understanding is that Jewish radicalism is cultural, not genetic , in origin. Jews tend to radical politics because they are a minority group. Hence, I'm not sure how Lenin's one quarter Jewish background could have influenced him, unless there is evidence to show that his Jewish ancestry was important to him."

Then how come many minority groups don't become radical activists? How many leading gypsy Marxist intellectuals have you heard about?
How many Uighurs are radical intellectuals in China?

While we should never discount Jewish culture, culture partly grows out of biology. Jews are high-IQ, high-energy, and combative personalities. They naturally gravitate toward battle of ideas and business.

If Alan Dershowitz had been raised in a quiet Quaker family and if Dan Quayle had been raised in a noisy Jewish family, my bet is Dershowitz would have gravitated toward a life of debate whereas Quayle would have been ignored as one of those 'dumb Jews'.

Anonymous said...

"Well, Lenin's purely Gentile father seems to have been a pretty smart guy"

But he was mostly a respectful smart guy who didn't wanna cause trouble.

The thing about Jewish intellectualism is it's very combative.
So, Lenin might have gotten smarts from both his parents but he might have gotten his fieriness from the Jewish side.

Anonymous said...

"Playing the victim card is never going to work if you are in one of the following: Christian, White, Male etc."

One thing for sure, there is preferred hierarchy of victimhood. If 'victim' one must be, most people would rather be victims of whites(especially Anglo-Americans) than anybody else. I'll bet Uighurs wish they were under Wasp rule than under Chinese rule. I'll bet Palestinians prefer the days when Brits ruled Palestine than when Jews ran it.
So many people come to America and bitch about 'victimhood', but they came here cuz 'victimhood' under 'white privilege' beats victimhood under their own kind or non-whites.

Paradoxically, the least oppressive oppressors get the most flak. Least oppressive oppressors offer some degree of freedom and criticism whereas the most oppressive oppressors kick ass totally. So, while victims of the most oppressive oppressors are nice and docile and act like they're doing just fine, the victims of the least oppressive oppressors act like they're living under the worst system that ever existed.

So, people who were quiet and obedient under terrible oppression in their own countries come here and bitch and whine about everything under the lenient system of 'white privilege'.

reiner Tor said...

There's plenty of evidence Lenin didn't like Russians (obviously excepting himself from his negative views on them), so I don't quite understand why we need to prove that it mattered to him. He knew well that he had little Russian blood.

If Jewish genes do tell you something about ethnocentrism, they probably tell you to be fiercely ethnocentric, and especially to look for a diaspora-like ethnic group (i.e. to dislike the majority and only like your own ethnic group). Those who identified with the majority or were insufficiently ethnocentric converted to Christianity and left the Jewish gene pool.

Gubbler of the Society of Reformed Chechenistics said...

This reminds me of the theory that Evangelicals are to blame for the 2008 meltdown because they sold God-and-wealth promises to Mexicans.

Anonymous said...

"My understanding is that Jewish radicalism is cultural, not genetic"

I think it's both.

1) As civilization started earlier in the east med. one of the east med. groups was always likely to end up as the banking mafia. Thus the following cycle could have been Armenians or Phoenicians or Persians.

2) Usury is inherently deflationary and destructive (because blah blah)(caveats blah blah). What this means is whichever group became the banking mafia would have entered a cycle of wealth, economic collapse, backlash, wealth, economic collapse, backlash etc.

3) So whichever group became the banking mafia would have had that cycle as a selective pressure for centuries or millenia.

4) That selective pressure might lead to a culture of "radicalism" aka preemptive self-defense through weakening the host in advance of the expected backlash but I think it would have genetic selective pressure as well - for example increased levels of paranoia

Reg Cæsar said...

Anon: Playing the victim card is never going to work if you are in one of the following: Christian, White, Male etc…will fall on deaf ears and at best earn mocking laughter.
Silver: Total [бычее гавно]… to refuse to play the victim card now would be to squander untold amounts of soft power.

Anon. is right. A white Christian man who plays the victim card is no longer a Christian, a white, or a man. You've ceded home-court advantage to the weaker team.

Some groups have managed to leverage power through "victimology". Can you name a single one that has earned respect?

reiner Tor said...

National Socialists (and other nationalists) in Germany did play the victim card, and they combined it with toughness, street brawls (and later military power), a pledge to revenge - but the victim card (Versailles etc.) was an important part of the package.

While I'm no advocate of a NS-style movement (neither think it would be practicable), I still think there are some lessons there. Namely, nurturing old grudges is not a bad strategy to foment group unity and support. Needless to say, it cannot stand alone.

Silver said...

Reg, the only thing tough talk has resulted in is getting your ass kicked, and kicked, and kicked some more.

I never suggested merely sitting there whining. Whites have played fair with the world but the world hasn't played fair with whites. You don't think political messages keyed off that foundation might ignite some righteous indignation among whites and force other races on the back foot? Frankly, I would have zero respect for any political strategist who'd answer "no."

In any case, the suggestion was made in order to help secure important objectives, not as a permanent way of life. Sorry, thought that was obvious.

Anonymous said...

This is the lesson for Vietnam:
Around 300 years ago, once, there were traitors named Nguen Huu Chinh and Le Chieu Thong, who conduct treason to their country.
300 year next, when Ukrainian children open their history book, there will be even a more "Genius" traitors, that is Yanukovych and his "Regional Party" conducting treason to their country.
Now about Vietnam today?